facility:anti-israel camp

  • The Five Mistakes of Syrian opposition
    http://angryarab.blogspot.fr/2016/12/the-five-mistakes-of-syrian-opposition.html

    According to Sami Kulayb of Al-Mayadin (and he supports the Syrian regime but has good sources on that side and also with Gulf regimes during his years at Aljazeera), there were five mistakes of the Syrian opposition which harmed its cause:

    1) the fragmentation of the opposition and its disunity and that each member of the leadership wanted to be the sole undisputed leader (I am paraphrasing and not translating).

    2) That it quickly departed from the resistance and anti-Israel camp to appease the West, and that its declared war on Hizbullah and Hamas made it easy for Hizbullah to intervene in Syria.

    3) that it relied on democratic Gulf regimes to help it in its declared agenda of democratizing Syria.

    4) that the liberals accepted to take a back seat to the Islamists in the leadership (of the exile opposition).

    5) that it believed that it can overthrow the regime by force for arms.

    I don’t necessarily agree with this analysis but it is an interesting take. I think that the biggest mistake was to turn the opposition movement into a shop for GCC regimes from the outset. All mistakes followed from that. Don’t forget the flood of money and corruption: Michel Kilu (the Syrian dissident) recently alluded to that in the leaked tape and talked about those who enriched themselves from Qatari money. I would also add: their blatant sectarian language and rhetoric which scared other Syrians and also rallied Shi‘ites in the region. I would also add: the way they governed areas under their control which led some people to choose the Syrian regime as the lesser of two evil. I would also add: the fact they never had a credible consistent message and would engage in double talk. I would also add that they never offered a concrete vision of the future of Syria.

    • @biggrizzly C’est parce que l’outil d’Angry Arab pour présenter ses extraits et citations est une catastrophe, qui ne facilite pas (comme le fait Seenthis) la différenciation entre l’extrait cité et le commentaire.

      C’est d’ailleurs pour cela que j’ai redécoupé en paragraphes son texte. Les points 1 à 5 sont repris de Sami Kleib (et, précise Angry Arab, ce ne sont pas des traductions littérales). Le dernier paragraphe, qui commence par « I don’t necessarily agree with this analysis », est le commentaire de A.A. qui, comme il vient de le dire, propose ses propres arguments.

      Sinon, pour le second degré, c’est possible, sinon il y a aussi les nombreuses fautes de frappe de Angry Arab. Sinon, on est d’accord, il est évident qu’il pense le contraire de cette phrase. :-))

    • T’inquiètes, j’avais bien fait la différence entre les points des uns et des autres et ta mise en forme est très explicite.

      Utiliser « democratic » et « gulf regime » dans la même phrase, ça confirme qu’on est un certain nombre à adopter le même cynisme, et à avoir envie de hurler quand nos journalistes utilisent « l’opposition démocratique » pour évoquer les rebelles financés par les monarchies du Golfe...

      Hier soir, sur France 2, les commentaires étaient bien moins vindicatifs d’ailleurs, quand il s’agissait d’évoquer les rebelles ; il y a une sorte de retournement de leur part, où ceux ci se sentent obligés d’admettre que ces rebelles ne sont pas totalement modérés ni totalement gentils. La propagande russe qui les atteint de plein fouet ? La force des faits ? Ou les sondages qui montrent que les candidats « pro-russes » en France ont de bonnes chances de gagner à la prochaine élection ?

    • D’après l’original : des états régionaux qui considèrent pas la democratie comme une priorité

      سامي كليب | خمسة أخطاء قتلت المعارضة السورية : : لبنان | جريدة السفير
      http://assafir.com/Article/1/520194

      الخطأ الثالث، اذاً، تمثّل في الاعتماد على دول اقليمية ليست الديموقراطية في سلّم أولوياتها،

  • South African Jews Vow Not Be ’Bullied’ by Calls to Cut Dual Israeli Citizenship - Jewish World News - Haaretz
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.675013

    An attack on the Jewish community – that is how South African Jewish community organizations are describing proposed changes to the country’s dual-citizenship laws.
    A deputy cabinet minister and senior official in the ruling African National Congress (ANC) made headlines at the weekend when he was quoted as saying that the government should look at changing current laws so as to prevent South African citizens from fighting for the Israel Defense Forces.
    The South African Jewish Board of Deputies (SAJBD) and South African Zionist Federation (SAZF) condemned the comments made by Obed Bapela, who is also head of the ANC’s national executive committee’s panel on international relations. 
    “He has undermined the very core value of South Africa’s democracy by proposing a change to our law purely to prevent one sector of our society, in this case, South African Jews, from having a relationship with Israel,” the SAJBD and SAZF said.
    “The South African Jewish community will not be bullied or intimidated by his threats and have sought a meeting with President Jacob Zuma and will request further meetings to clarify Bapela’s statement.”
    SAJBD chairwoman Mary Kluk told Haaretz that she didn’t know how many South Africans have served with the IDF in recent years.
    Asked if she believed that Bapela’s views reflected those of the senior ANC leadership, she said: “No. I strongly believe that these are Bapela’s personal views and that he uses every opportunity provided to him to put them out there.”
    Bapela rejected the notion that the proposed policy changes were aimed only at Israel.
    In a radio interview, he said that Israel was used as simply an example, but that the government was also concerned about South Africans serving with other nations’ armies.
    Several citizens had served with the American and British militaries during the invasion of Iraq, he said, and that others take part in mercenary wars and escape prosecution by adopting another country’s citizenship.
    Responding to the assertion that the South African Jewish community was being singled out, Bapela said: "Not at all. We are not anti-Jewish. We are not anti-Semitic. That is why even the policy says ’the Israeli state co-existing with that of Palestine.’

    Pro-Gaza, anti-Israel demonstrators in Cape Town, August 9, 2014.Reuters
    “That’s recognition of Israel as an independent state and the Jewish community as citizens of the world. It’s the policies of the government of Israel we oppose and are against.”
    He added, however, that if a “specific group” is sending boys to a country every year to receive military training, it was something that goes against ANC policies and would have to be looked at.
    Speaking to Haaretz, SAZF President Avrom Krengel said that although the organization doesn’t keep track of how many South Africans have served in the IDF in recent years, it was definitely far less than the number who serve in the British armed forces.
    “A year or two ago, the U.K. High Commissioner said that there were over 1,000 South Africans serving as British Marines,” Krengel said.
    He added that while the children of South Africans who make aliyah would eventually end up in the IDF when they reached conscription age, it could not be interpreted as a case of South African Jews sending their children to Israel to be part of the army.
    The fewer than 200 families who make aliyah every year come from a big cross-section of the community and are motivated to immigrate to Israel for various reasons, Krengel said.
    “They are not going there to join the IDF,” he said.
    He described Bapela as being part of a very vociferous anti-Israel camp in the ANC, but said his views weren’t shared by the country’s president, deputy president or senior cabinet ministers.
    The mooted change to the law also drew sharp criticism from Mangosuthu Buthelezi, who for 10 years served as Minister of Home Affairs and is head of the opposition Inkatha Freedom Party.
    Buthelezi said he felt frustrated by the ANC’s intention to “instruct” government to change its citizenship laws “purely on the basis that a few South Africans are also citizens of Israel, and a few among them may be receiving military training in Israel.”
    Buthelezi pointed out that under current laws a citizen can only lose his or her citizenship for serving in the armed forces of a country with which South Africa is at war.
    “We are not at war with Israel,” he noted.
    “One can reach no other conclusion than that the ANC has moved from being ’pro-Palestine’ to being ’anti-Israeli’.”
    Bapela was in the news less than two months ago for comments related to Israel.
    He had harsh words for South African students who visited Israel under the auspices of the South Africa-Israel Forum, saying that they had brought the ANC into disrepute and promising to launch a probe.
    At the time he accused Israel of “offering free trips and holidays to embarrass the ANC."
    Bapela was also a featured speaker at a protest in March of this year against the South Africa-Israel Expo in Johannesburg.
    During the BDS event, participants were heard shouting “You think this is Israel, we are going to kill you!” and “You Jews do not belong here in South Africa!”

  • South African Jews Vow Not Be ’Bullied’ by Calls to Cut Dual Israeli Citizenship
    Official in the ruling ANC party said that the government should look at changing the laws to prevent South Africans from fighting for IDF.

    Michael Campbell Sep 07, 2015

    An attack on the Jewish community – that is how South African Jewish community organizations are describing proposed changes to the country’s dual-citizenship laws.
    A deputy cabinet minister and senior official in the ruling African National Congress (ANC) made headlines at the weekend when he was quoted as saying that the government should look at changing current laws so as to prevent South African citizens from fighting for the Israel Defense Forces.
    The South African Jewish Board of Deputies (SAJBD) and South African Zionist Federation (SAZF) condemned the comments made by Obed Bapela, who is also head of the ANC’s national executive committee’s panel on international relations. 
    “He has undermined the very core value of South Africa’s democracy by proposing a change to our law purely to prevent one sector of our society, in this case, South African Jews, from having a relationship with Israel,” the SAJBD and SAZF said.
    “The South African Jewish community will not be bullied or intimidated by his threats and have sought a meeting with President Jacob Zuma and will request further meetings to clarify Bapela’s statement.”
    SAJBD chairwoman Mary Kluk told Haaretz that she didn’t know how many South Africans have served with the IDF in recent years.
    Asked if she believed that Bapela’s views reflected those of the senior ANC leadership, she said: “No. I strongly believe that these are Bapela’s personal views and that he uses every opportunity provided to him to put them out there.”
    Bapela rejected the notion that the proposed policy changes were aimed only at Israel.
    In a radio interview, he said that Israel was used as simply an example, but that the government was also concerned about South Africans serving with other nations’ armies.
    Several citizens had served with the American and British militaries during the invasion of Iraq, he said, and that others take part in mercenary wars and escape prosecution by adopting another country’s citizenship.
    Responding to the assertion that the South African Jewish community was being singled out, Bapela said: "Not at all. We are not anti-Jewish. We are not anti-Semitic. That is why even the policy says ’the Israeli state co-existing with that of Palestine.’

    Pro-Gaza, anti-Israel demonstrators in Cape Town, August 9, 2014.Reuters
    “That’s recognition of Israel as an independent state and the Jewish community as citizens of the world. It’s the policies of the government of Israel we oppose and are against.”
    He added, however, that if a “specific group” is sending boys to a country every year to receive military training, it was something that goes against ANC policies and would have to be looked at.
    Speaking to Haaretz, SAZF President Avrom Krengel said that although the organization doesn’t keep track of how many South Africans have served in the IDF in recent years, it was definitely far less than the number who serve in the British armed forces.
    “A year or two ago, the U.K. High Commissioner said that there were over 1,000 South Africans serving as British Marines,” Krengel said.
    He added that while the children of South Africans who make aliyah would eventually end up in the IDF when they reached conscription age, it could not be interpreted as a case of South African Jews sending their children to Israel to be part of the army.
    The fewer than 200 families who make aliyah every year come from a big cross-section of the community and are motivated to immigrate to Israel for various reasons, Krengel said.
    “They are not going there to join the IDF,” he said.
    He described Bapela as being part of a very vociferous anti-Israel camp in the ANC, but said his views weren’t shared by the country’s president, deputy president or senior cabinet ministers.
    The mooted change to the law also drew sharp criticism from Mangosuthu Buthelezi, who for 10 years served as Minister of Home Affairs and is head of the opposition Inkatha Freedom Party.
    Buthelezi said he felt frustrated by the ANC’s intention to “instruct” government to change its citizenship laws “purely on the basis that a few South Africans are also citizens of Israel, and a few among them may be receiving military training in Israel.”
    Buthelezi pointed out that under current laws a citizen can only lose his or her citizenship for serving in the armed forces of a country with which South Africa is at war.
    “We are not at war with Israel,” he noted.
    “One can reach no other conclusion than that the ANC has moved from being ’pro-Palestine’ to being ’anti-Israeli’.”
    Bapela was in the news less than two months ago for comments related to Israel.
    He had harsh words for South African students who visited Israel under the auspices of the South Africa-Israel Forum, saying that they had brought the ANC into disrepute and promising to launch a probe.
    At the time he accused Israel of “offering free trips and holidays to embarrass the ANC."
    Bapela was also a featured speaker at a protest in March of this year against the South Africa-Israel Expo in Johannesburg.
    During the BDS event, participants were heard shouting “You think this is Israel, we are going to kill you!” and “You Jews do not belong here in South Africa!”

    • Quand est-ce qu’en France on refuse la nationalité à ceux qui participent à une armée israélienne raciste, coloniale et (c’est un pléonasme) coupable de crimes de guerre ?

      Qui aura le courage de le réclamer ?